Curse

Loviatar · Mar 28, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

/signed

i'm quite pissed at having dupe skills!

i really don't like the idea of paying for stupid duped skills coz the programmers had a sdden lack of immagination.

it is a shame i have to be polite to an i............

IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY ACTUAL COUNT BY SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT YOU GOT YOUR FULL 300 NEW SKILLS

IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED THAT THERE ARE AN ADDITIONAL 5 SKILLS (5) PER PROFESSION IN ADDITION TO THE 300.

CLEAR YET?

330 SKILLS INCLUDING THE PROMISED NEW 300

Theos · Mar 28, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I swear some people are blinder than bats... hell I'd wager a stone is capable of better reasoning then they are.

You have not been jiped on anything, if you think that you were you have the cognitive function of an infant that thinks it is unfair to not recieve all the attention in the world. You have been given 300 new skills, yes NEW, not old but NEW! See that NEW! Then they went ahead and gave us, or atleast those of us with the capability to think for ourselves, skill copies which finally give people the versitality of running something other than /Me for Echo/Arcane.

Yes, let us make them remove the doubled skills. That way we will get those same 300 new skills with nothing else! How brilliant. You people are greedy idiots who cheat yourselves.

Dragonblood · Mar 28, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I find it funny that some people don't understand that the "clone/duplicate" skills are there for players/gamers that don't own GW: Prophecies. I mean think of it, it's only 5 "clone/duplicate" skills for each class. OH NO!!! That's 10 in both your primary & secondary. But do some undestand that you don't have to buy the "clone/duplicate". NO!! But for someone that doesn't own GW: Prophecies, that all the skills are new to them.

Plus I got a feeling that when ch.3 comes out(sometime this fall/winter), that we may not see "clone/duplicate" . Why you may ask....well think of it this way. Anet will know that 50% of the gamers/players will own both GW: Prophecies & Faction, an 50% will own Faction itself. That mean's that Anet may not make "clone/duplicate". But if they do, that be then just be silly. And that I hope by ch.3 they don't "clone/duplicate".

But I'm fine with "clone/duplicate" skills, because I understand, that not alot of gamers/players will own both GW: Prophecies & Faction. And that's the point Anet is trying to make. Plus they told us along time ago that some skills will be "clone/duplicate".

To understand or not, that's up to the person. But for the love of god, undestand.

Hella Good · Mar 28, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

I find it funny people don't understand that if they wanted to give em those skills, they could've just included them as BONUS skills for Factions users (AND kept them off the Core skill list, if they didn't want them in there).

The only viable reason then is adding strategic depth to the game, which is in, in my personal opinion, not substantially grounded. Again, for spells like Divine Healing or EQ... fine... they have huge recharge... but Vamp Touch, Touch of Agony... they have 2-3 sec recharge ffs... All it did is make Touch rangers EXTREMELY strong (they can just spam those 2 skills with pumped up Expertise and kill you in like no time...). Have you ever been chain Vamp Touch/Bite hit? Well, if you have and I have, AND I have done the build myself, you will understand how this is pushing the balance of things.

Dragonblood · Mar 28, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Do you not think that by the time Faction comes out, that Anet may not allow you the put both "clone/duplicate" skills your skillbar? Why...because that would be classed as spamming a skill/spell. Just because FPE they allowed it doesn't mean that when Faction comes out they will allow it.

It will only take a update/patch to fix that problem.

boxterduke · Mar 28, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

/not signed.
and you should know by now that internet petitions do not lead anywhere.

Thom · Mar 29, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

The purpose of designed skills is very clear. Take underused skills and make them more viable by creating two copies of the same skill. This was done specifically so that the skills can be used together. If touch rangers replace eviserate warriors, come back to watch me eat crow; I doubt you have to worry about balance with these types of skills.

Do we have a full list yet?

Rey Lentless · Mar 29, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

The fact that these are skills that are in Addition to the 300 new ones eliminates any concern from me.

My worry was that these were put in as part of the 300 as basically 'we couldn't think of any more'. And over the long run, we'd end up with copies of everything or multiple copies of some.. and that worried me. Since they are bonus skills, I don't worry about a lack of creativity causing an imbalance.

It's new stuff they can put in at their discretion and retain balance.. as opposed to being part of some new skill goal they're trying to reach put in because of deadlines and considered 'safe' because they're on less used skills.

I think it's a good idea now and have already seen the benefits of these replicates. It may have been borrowed from magic the gathering, but it's still a good idea.

Hella Good · Mar 29, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

The purpose of designed skills is very clear. Take underused skills and make them more viable by creating two copies of the same skill. This was done specifically so that the skills can be used together. If touch rangers replace eviserate warriors, come back to watch me eat crow; I doubt you have to worry about balance with these types of skills.

Do we have a full list yet?

I wouldn't say the skills are underused... I think they made it clear how they handle underused skills (*hint* Ineptitude, Unholy Feast *hint*). It's not about underused...

As for the skills, I can tell you the Monk, Necro and Mesmer ones. Some1 can fill in the other 3 professions:

Monk:
- Divine Healing - Heaven's Delight
- Heal Other - Jamei's Gaze
- Heal Area - Karei's Healing Circle
- Symbol of Wrath - Kirin's Wrath
- Holy Strike - Stonesoul Strike

Necro:
- Shadow Strike - Lifebane Strike
- Vamp Touch - Vamp Bite
- Touch of Agony - Wallow's Bite
- Desecrate Enchantments - Defile Enchantments
- Spinal Shivers - Shivers of Dread

Mesmer:
- Arcane Thievery - Arcane Larceny
- Sympathetic Visage - Ancestror's Visage
- Ethereal Burden - Kitah's Burden
- Inspired Enchantment - Revealed Enchantment
- Inspired Hex - Revealed Hex

As you can see some very frequently used skills here. Very...

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxterduke

/not signed.
and you should know by now that internet petitions do not lead anywhere.

I actually didn't mean it as a petition per se, it was more like take side on the issue type of thing. But it's fine anyway you wanna view it/call it.

Grammar · Mar 29, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

As for the skills, I can tell you the Monk, Necro and Mesmer ones. Some1 can fill in the other 3 professions:

Monk:
- Divine Healing - Heaven's Delight
- Heal Other - Jamei's Gaze
- Heal Area - Karei's Healing Circle
- Symbol of Wrath - Kirin's Wrath
- Holy Strike - Stonesoul Strike

Necro:
- Shadow Strike - Lifebane Strike
- Vamp Touch - Vamp Bite
- Touch of Agony - Wallow's Bite
- Desecrate Enchantments - Defile Enchantments
- Spinal Shivers - Shivers of Dread

Mesmer:
- Arcane Thievery - Arcane Larceny
- Sympathetic Visage - Ancestror's Visage
- Ethereal Burden - Kitah's Burden
- Inspired Enchantment - Revealed Enchantment
- Inspired Hex - Revealed Hex

NOW we're getting somewhere.
This thread needs less arguing and more information.
Anyone know the dupes for the other classes?

lyra_song · Mar 29, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Beastial Fury - Tiger's Fury

thats all i remember o.o

Hella Good · Mar 29, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Ranger:
- Tiger's Fury - Beastial Fury (thx lyra)
- Beastial Pounce - Savage Pounce
- Dodge - Zojun's Haste
- Point Blank Shot - Zojun's Shot
I'm missing one

Ele:
- Wirlwind - Tenai's Wind
- Searing Heat - Tenai's Heat
- Earthquake - Dragon's Stomp
- Crystal Wave - Tenai's Crystals
- Ice Prison - Tenai's Prison

Warrior:
I know there is a hammer double not sure which
- Penetrating Blow - Penetrating Chop
- Griffon's Sweep - Leviatan's Sweep
- Pure Strike - Jaizhenju Strike
- Desperation Blow - Drunken Blow

CKaz · Mar 29, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

The only viable reason then is adding strategic depth to the game, which is in, in my personal opinion, not substantially grounded. Again, for spells like Divine Healing or EQ... fine... they have huge recharge... but Vamp Touch, Touch of Agony... they have 2-3 sec recharge ffs... All it did is make Touch rangers EXTREMELY strong (they can just spam those 2 skills with pumped up Expertise and kill you in like no time...). Have you ever been chain Vamp Touch/Bite hit? Well, if you have and I have, AND I have done the build myself, you will understand how this is pushing the balance of things.

Yup that's certainly one glaring thing that struck me as well, we're on the same page. I'm not sure things were really thought out, tested, and there just seems to be better ways than 'offering up the same card in a different set or deck' where here it's just renamed and a different chapter. And you have to link accounts and lose slots to play with both 'decks'.

For those not keeping up at home I'll toss one out quick - R/N blood build
(expertise, blood)
literally spam (but intermixing these so sac and leach) -
touch of agony
wallow's bite [dupes above]
vampric touch
vampric bite [dupes above]

these already had low recharges (made better by ANet over time actually) so guess what?
see low recharges (remember vampric touch was lowered) kinda doesnt need duplicate skills - that's one thing we already had instead of having renamed same skills taking more slots to do the same thing.

so the above will run out of energy, but I only put in 4 skills
you have options, and keep in mind your costs were greatly expertise reduced
I'll leave flushing out the build to you - seems ANet wants you to try it

and that's certainly not all that comes to mind.

I think given all the flexibility with skills they could have added strategic depth to the game without renamed same skills. But if that is the way we're going I'd like to at least be consistent in naming or implementation and not need a roadmap over all the chapters to connect the renamed dots (like have it simply be a factor of the original skill where you can gain more instances of its use as you progress/as applicable). But that's me.

CKaz

Tric · Mar 29, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

/signed

I think Anet are lying to their fans (it's that dire) when they say "each profession has 75 new skills". But they don't. Anet also said that these "new" skills are radically different from the old ones... Dare I say, HAHAHAHAHAHA?

LightningHell · Mar 29, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tric

/signed

I think Anet are lying to their fans (it's that dire) when they say "each profession has 75 new skills". But they don't. Anet also said that these "new" skills are radically different from the old ones... Dare I say, HAHAHAHAHAHA?

No, the new professions have 75 new skills, the others recieve 25 new skills. That has been said over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again already. The current duplicates are bonus skills, five added to the original new 25 skills.

Lord Cooper · Mar 29, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

i for one hope they keep the duped skills. just imagine the fun a geotank is going to have.. duped crystal wave means i can drop obsidian flame (no exhaustion) silver armour means i can drop armour of earth (no slowdown and dmg output) theres also a skill that stops knockdowns in the earth line i think but cant remeber what its called.. now i wont have to go warrior 2ndary for balanced stance. i can keep pure earth and energy storage and max them out

farming just got easier

Amok · Mar 29, 2006, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tric

/signed

I think Anet are lying to their fans (it's that dire) when they say "each profession has 75 new skills". But they don't. Anet also said that these "new" skills are radically different from the old ones... Dare I say, HAHAHAHAHAHA?

I'm starting to think a very large number of complaints are coming from people who still cannot grasp the fact that these duplicate skills are IN ADDITION to the 300 new skills.

LightningHell · Mar 29, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amok

I'm starting to think a very large number of complaints are coming from people who still cannot grasp the fact that these duplicate skills are IN ADDITION to the 300 new skills.

There's also something VERY wrong here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tric

I think Anet are lying to their fans (it's that dire) when they say "each profession has 75 new skills". But they don't. Anet also said that these "new" skills are radically different from the old ones... Dare I say, HAHAHAHAHAHA?

Who told you that?

Snowman · Mar 29, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Okay,

I think its quite important to clear this up before anyone signs this.

Is it true, that the duplicate skills are in _addition_ to the "25 new skills for existing proffesions" ?

If this IS the case then yes, I cant see it being a problem.. nothing lost, something gained.

However if they are INCLUDED in the "new existing proffesion" skills then it is of serious concern.

I know ALOT of elementalists who feel that their new skills does nothing for their proffesion, if these 25 new skills includes 5 identical skills then I would personally feel very robbed.

so I think that should be cleared up before anyone signs anything.

Raif · Mar 29, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by TideSwayer

If you don't like them you don't have to buy them from the skill trader. I personally love the idea.

agreed